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Encryption in the USA

So for me what changed my mind was protest in Boston that turned violent and during it gangs of folks were looting stores and as soon as BPD would dispatch folks they would flea. There was no doubt that they were listening. I'm the worlds biggest scanner freak and I love to listen to everything including 40 years of BPD. But I don't blame BPD for encrypting and I understand why they are doing it. I will miss listening to them but the world has changed and they need to protect the men and women on the streets.
 
Radio systems do not need to be fully encrypted to effectively protect their users. There are countless radio systems in the Radio Reference database that have their operations (dispatch) frequencies or talkgroups in the clear, and numerous tactical/event/SWAT channels/talkgroups for events similar to what you describe. Those are encrypted.

That, in my opinion (which matters not, I know), is the correct way to go about it. Some departments do. Some departments don't.

Not surprised about the fleas either, given some of the protesters.
 
I find myself tending to side more with John these days. As likely the only one in this thread who lives in a municipality that has gone fully encrypted. I find there are times when I sure wish I knew where they were going, but to what John said, between these Facebook scanner groups, whackers that have to go to every scene and the overall safety of officers not being anything like it used to be, I can really see the need for full encryption on all calls. What I don't completely understand is why do Fire Departments need to go encrypted? EMS, definitely, PD understandable. But fire departments?
 
I stand by my thoughts on the matter. Again, nothing we say means anything at all in the grand scheme of things. Maybe it's an easier side to take for those that have their law enforcement agencies already encrypted.

Let's just encrypt everything! Here's a hypothetical for you. You're my trash pickup driver. You communicate on a NXDN trunked radio system, and I'm listening. Last week you neglected to pick up several empty cat food cans from my front lawn. I'm an unstable wing nut and the next time you come for trash pickup, you will incur my wrath. So....now I can't hear you on the radio anymore because you've encrypted. But, I still know you're coming, don't I? If I'm involved as a bad guy on a police call, I have an idea you're coming too, whether your communications are encrypted or not.

If these departments would be allowed to have the funds necessary to build a proper radio system in 2025, they could set up such a system as I describe, as many have. However, in this state, the corruption, idiocy, anti-police sentiment, and pet projects in the name of "wokeness" detract from common sense.

I wonder how much money they've spent on this system? https://www.snewiki.com/wiki/index.php/Boston_Municipal_Trunk Is it ever going to be used for anything? Our own Wiki says otherwise. Apparently 11 tower sites are required to support 4 talkgroups. There appear to be at least two "big digs of radio" in Massachusetts.

As to fire department encryption? I feel it's the dreaded HIPAA (for those that provide EMS anyway) and a bill of goods being sold to the departments doing so. Or maybe they feel they need that protection too? To beat the dead horse a little more, if that house over there is on fire, or that car in the median strip just went up in flames, it's a safe bet that everyone knows they're coming. The fact that they're encrypted - or not - is irrelevant.

How many people are listening and using scanners and scanner feeds for nefarious purposes? Totally baseless guess, but 1/10th of 1 percent maybe?

My prior commentary in this and prior threads should allow anyone with half a brain to conclude that I am absolutely positively 200% in favor of protecting law enforcement and any public safety personnel. I simply believe there is a proper way to do it. When I worked for my PD, if we had a call that was of a nature where significant problems could arrive, it was simply transmitted to responding personnel by means other than the radio. As a result, the outcome was usually always successful. Everyone was made aware whether they were responding or not, so there were no surprises or compromised responders. Any pertinent radio communications were on arrival and post arrival. It was easily accomplished, and I'll allow that maybe that's because it is a smaller department. So my thoughts again are for that larger department, i.e. a city like Boston, that has an active ongoing major event, switch to your encrypted talkgroups/frequencies. I'm all for that. Day to day operations? Nope. Fund and build a radio system that offers you the best of both worlds, and train your personnel how to use it.
 
Very well said, Scott. I'll add a few thoughts.

Regarding EMS/fire. HIPAA has specific exemptions for emergency communications including via two way radio. There is no requirement to encrypt for EMS. The services that are moving to PTT systems are doing so for cost reasons, not HIPAA.

During the Boston riots in 2020 as I recall people were calling 9-1-1 and the police were not responding until after the looting was over. That was a big complaint at the time, but seems to have been mostly forgotten. In Brockton the rioters didn't flee the police, they attacked the police station. I don't believe that they were listening to scanners. The same happened in other major cities across the country.

As far as the new Boston trunk and move to P25 Scott, you know pretty well how municipal contracting goes. Boston does it on steroids. There was a press release from the city about a new EMS station being built in the Seaport District. When I retired at the end of 2012, that was being talked about. In fact, it had been talked about for several years before that. It took about 20 years from the time that it was first proposed until ground was broken.

I expect that the new trunk will be used by the city at some point and they will move off of the 700MHz overlay because MSP wants that. As in everything else, there is a lot of politics involved in radio and IT construction in Boston.

I will continue to maintain my position that encryption is political and has no impact on safety for police, fire, or EMS.
 
The ability to rapidly disseminate information with social media and instant comms online has forced many departments to become highly paranoid about their communcations. Add on top that law enforcement and other public safety to an extent are open to criticism and attacks at every level. With every dumbass out there filming them on phones and trying to defund/assault/kill/dismantle LEOs, taking the radio comms out of the public equation creates one less headache for a chief or a mayor to worry about.
I'm a stern supporter of public safety security, and encryption is just part of that reality now. If I had it my way, all Fire/EMS would be clear except for maybe a tac channel for door codes and sensitive medical info. And as for Law, have all the dispatch in the clear with Tactical, Swat ,CJIS/NCIS, and narcs/gangs strapped secure. Perfect balance for transparency and officer safety.
 
My opinion, the way Lowell and Methuen PD have their channels setup seems like a good balance. Have regular day to day traffic on the primary channel and high priority and sensitive calls done on the secure channel. Why cities like Lawrence, Haverhill, Manchester, and Nashua can’t do it like that, I don’t know (they either don’t want to, don’t care or all the above). Heck North Andover encrypts when they need to, and then goes back in the clear. Hudson NH usually keeps the dispatcher and higher ups encrypted unless they have joint ops going, then the dispatcher decrypts. I can understand the officer safety reason for having police channels encrypted, however if someone (or people) really wanted to hurt police officers, they don’t need a scanner to do so (Brockton and Manchester for examples). Even in Lawrence during the Floyd protests, protesters still threw things at the cops and they were encrypted at the time. It didn’t stop them from doing harm to the officers. Also the morons who chase the police (cop block I believe they’re called), they still do so in Manchester and Nashua. Yeah they can’t listen to the calls live, but as soon as they see the blues, they’re off to rush to the scene. Regarding suspects fleeing the scenes, they flee regardless of if an agency is encrypted or not. Does it give them advantage to listen in and time it, only if they don’t get caught. They are times where they are listening to the live calls and they still get caught. Also, suspects still get away even if the agency is encrypted, happens all the time in the cities I already listed. Another issue I see is interoperability with other towns. Before Lawrence went encrypted, I know the Andovers, Methuen and Salem used to listen in case they had a police chase going or if they had something going on their borders that required mutual aid. Now they have to call Lawrence PD directly to see what’s going on. Same with Haverhill. I believe last year, Haverhill was looking for somebody and the mass state police chopper was called. They tried to call them on the BAPERN channels and the Haverhill PD primary channel, but they couldn’t understand a word they were saying due to not having the encryption key. The police chopper had to communicate with Haverhill Fire in order to help out. The BAPERN channels are supposed to be interop channel for incidents like that, but if an encrypted agency doesn’t want to shut it off (Haverhill and Lawrence are not strapped, they have the ability to turn it off) then what use are they? Anyway, apologies for the long rant but that is my two cents. It will not change anything, but this my opinion on the encryption locally.
 
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